"jlmounce" (jlmounce)
04/15/2014 at 13:31 • Filed to: Firebird, Pontiac, Muscle Car, Classic Car, Restoration
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"jlmounce" (jlmounce)
04/15/2014 at 13:31 • Filed to: Firebird, Pontiac, Muscle Car, Classic Car, Restoration | 4
| 9 |
As some might remember, I've been working on my 1969 Firebird for a full 15 years at this point. Recently, prompted by a move, I've made some good headway on the car.
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Unfortunately since it's been moved to it's temporary home I've run in to a number of snags.
Back when I originally purchased this car, I really wanted something turn key. I didn't have a plan for it other than to drive and enjoy it. After it broke during delivery and the long process of restoring and refurbishing took place, it became more of a build. The problem is I didn't have a plan until I discovered pro-touring. At that point I knew I wanted it low and I wanted it to handle better than a stock first gen f-body.
The problem was I'd already been throwing parts at the car to fix it. Poly bushings, front disc brake conversion, steering arm rebuilds, wheels and tires, etc. I'm know reaping what I sewed with those unplanned decisions.
Now that I've started to put the new suspension in the car, I quickly realized that those unplanned modifications have really put me in a bind. The disc brake conversion being the major culprit. It has increased the track width on the front by 1.5" over stock. Additionally, the wheels I chose for the car don't have the proper backspacing for a F-Body of any vintage. They are wider than the factory wheels at 7" in the front and 8" in the rear, but carry a lower backspacing than factory at 3.8" backspacing vs 4" backspacing. Add to that wide and taller tires than factory, with a lowered suspension and I've got problems.
It would seem like an easy solution to just purchase new wheels. There's lots of great options that don't break the bank. Except for that darn track width change. That change alone means that I can't find wheels that fit both the front and the back while fitting in the fender wells. This means I have to purchase custom wheels, which doubles or more the budget for wheels and tires.
Since the wife and I are in the process of having a house built, that extra expense can't be spared right now. Leaving pretty much any hope of completing the car this year at zero.
I've also got to figure something out with the fuel system. The previous owner put a hopped up 455 in the car, but didn't bother to upgrade the fuel system to support it. I could keep the car carbureted, but I'd need to upgrade the fuel system to a 1/2" sending unit and feed lines along with a large mechanical pump (which needs replaced anyway). I also need a carb that's sized properly for the motor and has an adjustable secondary. By the time I figure all the cost for those items, EFI is starting to look a lot more attractive. Especially considering where I live, you can go from 4500 ft to 8000 ft in altitude in a bit more than an hour. You simply can't tune a carb to deal with those kind of atmospheric pressure changes.
So unfortunately yet another year will pass and the car will primarily sit. On the bright side, in a couple months it'll have a nice shiny place to do all of it's sitting!
jlay
> jlmounce
04/15/2014 at 13:49 |
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How about C5 corvette wheels with wheel adapters? 17 x 8.5 front and 18 x 9.5 rears, might cost less than $1k total with adapters and cheap tires.
On the carb vs. EFI issue, you will need to upgrade the fuel system for EFI anyways, so I would put in an EFI-ready (high pressure) fuel system. Aeromotive makes a return regulator that works for both carb and EFI, as do other manufacturers. Worst case, you can sell the carb regulator. A carb doesn't depreciate that much - This one on ebay is probably pretty close to what you need and runs $400. You could probably get close to that selling it used when you're ready to move to EFI.
I'd get the car running and drive it this summer. EFI is an expensive proposition and will drag the project out longer than needed, don't let it be a roadblock to enjoying the car now.
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jlmounce
> jlay
04/15/2014 at 14:08 |
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I've looked in to doing Corvette wheels, but at the end of the day I'm not keen on having large adapters on the car. I do want to track the car and adapters (especially with as large as they'd need to be) aren't the best for safety in that situation. It's something I'd rather just do once in all honesty. The wife isn't going to let me spend the money on wheels until the house is done anyway, so doing it right the first time, will probably just be better.
crowmolly
> jlay
04/15/2014 at 14:24 |
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That fits under a stock first gen F-body chassis? I am not so sure about the 8.5's up front. If so, then probably not with a non-notched subframe or the stock fenderwells.
jl,
If you keep the front disc spindle you have now then new wheels are in your future. Why not just run a staggered wheel setup? I had the same issue with a set of 60's TTDs that only had 3.75" of backspacing.
MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
> jlmounce
04/15/2014 at 16:25 |
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Man, normally I'm always push carbs on older cars. I LOVE my upgraded Holley I put on the Montego, but with your altitude issues you may want to really consider the EFI.
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jlmounce
> MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
04/15/2014 at 17:27 |
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If I lived in a location that didn't have constantly changing atmospheric conditions, I'd keep a carb on this car without question. I actually have a Carter 9800S Thermoquad that is a great fit for it. Just needs a rebuild and a spread-bore manifold. But if I wanted to take a drive up the canyon, I could go from 4500 ft and 90 degrees to close to 8000 ft and 65 degrees in a real short period of time. Half way up, your puking raw fuel out of your tail-pipes and and you're struggling to keep the engine from drowning.
If I want to do anything really meaningful, the car will have to have an adaptive EFI system on it.
What I'd like to do is a Holley HP universal kit. I'll use the HP system's throttle body, ECU, and harness while using Edelbrock's Victor EFI manifold and their Pontiac specific fuel rails. I've also toyed with the idea of doing Edelbrock's E-Street system with the provided sump. That would be a bit easier and also a bit cheaper...just not as full functioned or as cool.
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jlmounce
> crowmolly
04/15/2014 at 17:34 |
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I'm planning to run a staggered fitment. Even then I'm still running in to the same issue. Even the staggered fitment wheels are designed with the same overall backspacing in mind. So if you find a pair that would fit the front, it's too much spacing in the rear. Find them for the rear and it's not enough back spacing in the front.
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crowmolly
> jlmounce
04/15/2014 at 17:39 |
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What size tires are you trying to run?
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jlmounce
> crowmolly
04/15/2014 at 18:27 |
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Nothing too crazy. If I'm spending money on wheels I'd like a 18x8 and 18x9 on there with a 245 and 275 section width rubber. Definitely doable with the correct backspacing. I'd probably go with a 235 up front to stretch the tire a little bit to help clearance at full lock.
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MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
> jlmounce
04/16/2014 at 09:22 |
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either one would be a pretty cool set up. I LOVE TBI units. Had one on my first crazy build s10 blazer. They're really cool (and it did great in the Pennsylvania mountains through elevation changes btw)